051: Isn't It Time You Got Your Website Right? w/SAM DUNNING

Host Allan Langer - 7 Secrets Sales & Marketing
Workspace Grain Recordings
Length 32m
Start Time 11:17 AM on Feb 8, 2021
Exported 10:22 AM on Jun 4, 2021
Highlights 3
Recording Link https://grain.co/recordings/89f968b7-69de-498a-bc12-0a2024596468
Sam Dunning Podcast interview with Allan Langer
Participants (2)
Allan Langer - 7 Secrets Sales & Marketing
Sam Dunning
Transcription
0:05
Count down
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three, two, two, and one. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to another episode of marketing and sales over
cocktails. This is your host Allan Langer, and I've got an exciting guest coming up tonight from across the pond
from the UK. I've got Sam Dunning coming up. Uh he's from bath, England. And before we get to Sam, just a couple
of housekeeping notes as I always start my podcast with the. Website address, which is marketing and sales
podcast.com. Don't forget to visit the site. You can leave reviews, you can send me questions, but the big section
is at the top of the site. You'll see the ask Alan button. If you click on that and you send me a question. If I
end up reading your question on the air, you get a free signed copy of my book, and we've got a good question
coming up from Joseph over in Austin, Texas later on. So, uh, this is episode 51 the year you were just past the
head. Half century Mark, uh, Sam. So you're starting, you're the first podcast for the second half of the a
hundred that I'm heading for. So welcome to the show, Sam, how you doing tonight? Hey Allen. All good on this end,
man. Looking forward to chatting today and thanks for having me on dude. So hopefully fully. So when we're
recording this, um, things were still bad in England from a COVID standpoint, when this comes out, I'm hoping
things are a lot better. So, um, here's wishing, you know, everything is safe with you guys and your family and
hope when this comes out, everyone's listening and say, yes, we've we've, we've got to the other side. Oh, I hope
so, man, D gang getting tired of, of locked down. Just unfortunate that I can, I can still run and carry on in the
digital world from, from home. So yeah, blessed in that sense, just itching to get out there, start doing sports,
go to the pub, have a beer, see my friends, you know, all that good stuff. That, all that stuff that we're social
animals, man. We need to get out there in front of people. Right? This is it. This is it, man. All right. Well,
speaking of social. So Sam is the owner of web choice and he, uh, they build websites that do SEO strategies. All
kinds of really cool stuff to help your business grow from a social media standpoint and from a website
standpoint. And, um, Sam actually had me on his podcast and we kind of focused on the sales end of things. But I
want Sam to talk about today on how, you know, a lot of the small business owners and my audience can really take
advantage of some website expertise, because I think, and maybe you can agree with you, you know, you agree or
disagree with me, Sam, I think most small businesses get websites wrong, or they're talking to the wrong website
company. W w w what do you think their first, you know, I got a small business. I need to start a website. Do I do
it myself? Do I hire someone? What are your couple of suggestions you'd make right off the bat? Yeah, this there's
a lot of considerations, Alan. You're exactly right. And I think one of the there's there's many mistakes when it
comes to designing a website to design, to building a website and to also marketing it. Um, and there's, there's
so many I could choose, but I think one of the key takeaways, which is something I'm talking about, A lot right
now is not designing the website for your own ego. So not designing something that you think looks great and
you're really, really happy with, but designing it for your ideal customers or the clients that you actually want
to hook through the site. Um, so what do I mean by that? Well, essentially, I've, I've been guilty of it in the
past as well, designing sites and what I think looks awesome in terms of the color schemes in terms of the main
page is the information that's there. How they're set out, how they're laid out when really we should be thinking
about who ultimately. Through both the design, the structure, the layout, and also the copy. So the messaging
that's across the site, is this going to engage my ideal customer? Is it going to hook them? Is it going to be a
value to them? Is it going to build trust with them and ultimately, depending on whether we're selling directly
through the website or whether we want to generate leads or inquiries, is it going to convert them from just
browsing to actually taking the action, taking that step and filling out a contact form? Giving us a cool. Or if
we're selling products, but making that all important purchase. So we've got to look at it more from a user
perspective than from our own, our own views. If that makes sense. Um, didn't really answer your question, but
gave us a good starting point. It may, it made a lot of sense because I, the biggest mistake I see business owners
make even large companies is they make the website all pretty and cute and, and everybody's going to collapse in
the boardroom, but if it takes a cut and you know this cause. Came, this comes from the StoryBrand model is if it
takes the human brain more than, I dunno, eight seconds to figure out what you sell, they're going to the next
website. They don't want to spend time trying to figure that out. And that's what people really need to understand
is you need to hook them that first, first thing that pops up needs to needs to say, stay on my website. And this
is why. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So from, to, to go back to your original question, yes, you can do it yourself.
There's plenty of tools out there to do. And build websites. Um, ultimately it depends whether you've got the time
to put in the research, you've got to speak to your clients about what they like, what they dislike, build the
copy, cross with the zines and do that if you've got the time. Great. Perhaps you've got a marketing team that can
do that for you. Otherwise you might need professional help. Depends on what resources you've got. Um, but just
like you said, Allen, one of the most important things is you've only got seconds. You've only got a few seconds.
As soon as someone lands on your website to give them the messaging and let them know. If you can help them or
not. And just like your first two there with the StoryBrand with, as Donald Miller, coined as something called the
grunt test, which is a really powerful test to run on your website. So if someone's stuck your website homepage in
front of a caveman, sitting in their cave, could they within a few seconds grunt exactly what you do, exactly how
you could help them and how you can, how they can get in touch. If they can't grunt those things within a few
seconds, then your website is not doing its job properly. And you're probably losing money if you're spending time
or, or even worse, your own money. Into ads or whatever marketing strategy to actually drive people onto this
site. Yeah. I actually, when I, I became a StoryBrand certified guide, uh, back in November of 2019 before COVID
and I'll never forget when he said just exactly what you said, you know, need to know what you do, uh, how to get
it, uh, what you sell, how, how they can get it and how it's going to make their life better. And, and he also
said, took, put the grunt test to the test and he said, sit in a coffee shop. And when someone's. This next to you
put up your website and ask them if they can answer those three questions in 10 seconds. I, and I did that on my
original website. They couldn't and like, damn he's right. So I had her, I revamped my entire website, so, so
those three questions could be answered right away. Yeah. And some, some pet peeves, Alan don't don't get me
started too much, but it's when, um, when businesses rant on too much about how good they are instead of how they
actually help their customers. So it's, it's like when you land on a homepage or a landing page, and it's like,
we're, award-winning, we're the best in class. Asked for this. We are so great. It's like, well, that that's all
good, but ultimately that's not helping your customer. Um, when really you've got to tell them that straight away,
the problem you solve or how you make their life or their business better, otherwise it's not really giving them a
quick insight into what you do and how you can help them. Right. And it, it, that goes into it into one of the
biggest sales problems too, is, is salespeople talk about features way too much and ignore the benefits or how
it's going to help a customer. They'll do a feature dump where they. Walk in and talk about their product
immediately. Don't ask the right questions. Uh, just like your website really has to answer questions right away.
Uh, so they got clean strips, scrolling and say, you know what? I think this person can actually help me. That's
what the that's what really a website is for. Yeah. It's like, like you say, being a sales professional, your
website is just the same. You've got to be a useful resource. So you're asking the right questions. You're
building those layers of trust. You're like, just like you say, encouraging people to scroll further, learn more
about what you can do and. Actually get them to take the next step. So here's, here's a question I've heard, uh,
this, uh, uh, quite a few times now, um, uh, I interviewed Chris Walker. Who's like a marketing guru. You may have
seen him on LinkedIn and his big thing. And, and, and it's really interesting, cause this is not how people think.
People think that a relationship with a customer should start on your website. And he actually says the
relationship with the customer should start on social media, which should then get them to your website, where
they already have built. Affinity with you. Do you agree with that? Depends. Um, there's a set answer. I mean,
obviously he's going to push social as he's. I believe that his company does, does a lot through LinkedIn. Um,
I've seen Chris Walker. I don't know a great deal about him, but it makes sense if he's going to put social,
ultimately yes, you can start, you can start building relationships. You can start building trust on social if
that's where your clients are hanging out. So if you're B2B, then probably business professionals, your ideal
clients would be hanging out on LinkedIn. If you're B to C, it might be Facebook. It might be Instagram. It might
be some other, some other channel. Um, if you're B to B or B to C, they're probably going to be using Google to
search. So things like search engine optimization is worthwhile things like Google ads probably probably
worthwhile depending on what you're doing. So there's so many different channels, or it could be a podcast. It
could be a webinar. There's so many different channels. And depending on our business where these, these
relationships can start, where people can first hear about our brand gain information about our brand and then
decide whether they want to go to our website. A landing page. So I'd say it's quite a broad term, whether it's
social, um, depending on where, where our clients are at.
9:38
So do you, um, is there a specific industry that you say, yeah, you definitely should start on social or, or you
definitely should start with SEO or is it just really depends on the company specifically itself? Yeah, I mean,
usually it's, it's very company dependent. Um, but I mean, for example, if, if you're. Let's say you're B2B,
you're selling software. Maybe you're doing software as a service, like selling CRM solutions or, yeah, I don't
know some kind of online system that that manages leads or managers appointments or something like that. Some kind
of CRM, then the chances are you're going to be working with business professionals so you can be pitching to
them. So yeah, you probably want to look at LinkedIn as, as a marketing platform because you can actively connect,
engage and put out content. That's going to link up to the people you want to be speaking to and having sales
conversations with. Um, but then likewise, depending on what resources, what marketing budget you've got, you're
going to be wanting to look at things like SEO to get organically positioned on Google. So when people search for
your products, so if they're searching like best CRM provider, you come up top, long-term organically in the
searches. You might want to look at some kind of paid media, whether that's Google ad words. So you've, you've got
the fast, short term traffic at the top of Google and the bottom Google listings, or whether that's pay listings
on LinkedIn. Um, Quite a lot of channels. Ultimately it depends on how fast you want to get this traffic, how fast
you want to start the sales conversations as to which channels you want to look at and how much resources you have
in house to, to actually manage all these channels at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, what you're saying to
me is, is, you know, it's dizzying on and I'm sure it's overwhelming and dizzying to, to a lot of business owners.
So it sounds like the best thing to do is to hire a professional, to do this stuff. Cause it's just, you know, th
there's. Just no way I would be able to do any, you know, half of what you just said. I guess the question is, how
do you find, like, what do you look for when you hire someone to do this? Is there specific things that you should
be looking for, uh, in their experience or, um, you know, should they be an expert in CE and SEO or what, what
would you, what would you recommend looking for when they need to hire someone to do this? Yeah. Yeah. That's a
good point. I guess, first understand what you're comfortable doing yourself, whether you're an entrepreneur. Solo
preneur what you're actually comfortable looking after from a website from marketing perspective. So it might be
that you're really, really good on LinkedIn. So you've got that absolutely nailed. You're able to make
connections. You're able to put out content consistently. You're able to start conversations your ideal customer.
So you've got that nailed. Um, great. So you may want to look at other avenues, so let's say we'll carry on with
the software CRM re you, let's say you want to be found on Google. So as a long-term solution, you might want to
look at SEO. How do you find a trusted company? Um, well, I mean, usually you. Well, if it's SEO, especially, you
probably want to look for a company that's ranking well on Google themselves. So when you search for this service,
yeah, that would be a good place to start. And then much, much like anything. I mean, you want to probably check
out, see, they've got a few solid reviews and testimonials you want to chat when you're actually having a
conversation with them. Just like speaking to a sales person, you want to make sure they're actually taking the
time to understand what your business does and how you generate work or leads. What at the moment? A few questions
about where you want to get to I, what you're doing right now to generate business, where do you want to get to in
12 months time? Um, why is that important to you? So a company that takes the time to understand where your
business is right now and where you want to get to, to see if you were aligned together to achieve those results.
I mean, that's, that's a quick snapshot of, I'd say it's quite important. That's so critical. I, when I, when
people ask me quite similar questions about, um, other industries, I'm like th the, the company or the person that
asks you those questions, like how come. And I solve your problem. Tell me what your problem is rather than just
starting to go into, well, this is this great software that we have. Um, that's the company you, you want to, you
want to do business with because they're starting with you. They're not starting with themselves. Yeah, exactly.
So a business that will take the time to understand where you're at, what issues you've got right now, where do
you want to get to why that's important to you? So, yeah, that's, that's quite key rather than just looking at a
few, few companies when it's it's much the same with any industry islands. I'm sure you agree. Um, until you can
act. Have a conversation with them. It's not until then that you'll get a feel if they're a good fit or not. Yeah.
So touch on this is, this is a pretty ongoing conversation you see, especially on LinkedIn where the automated
bots, the automated sales messages are going out on mass to all these different people. And you can tell it's,
it's not a real person. It's a, it's a robot sent it out. You know, that clearly. I mean, I always say, you know,
people will say. Doesn't work. I'm like, well, if it didn't work, it w they wouldn't keep doing it. So there's, I
think I read there's like a 1.2% success rate in those things, but people always forgetting about the other 99%
that they're pissing off. So, yeah. Yeah. Um, obviously I think I know what your answer is, but, but tell, tell
people that they need to avoid that. Like, why do they need to avoid something like that? Because it's, it's such
a, uh, I think it's an invasive kind of feeling that you get when you get one. Oh yeah. I mean, we we've been
guilty of doing that in the past. So when I first started on LinkedIn, um, this is probably not how many years ago
we talking now? Probably five, six, maybe more years ago when I first started on it. That is when I, I thought it
was well, initially I thought LinkedIn was a CV based website. So just to find jobs, then I realized you could
find work on it. Then I started it. I don't think we had bots, but what I did was I just built this pitch on
notepad editor, copied it, and just pasted it to every connection I could control. Be control. And then I thought,
if I spend like five hours doing this a day, I could get one lead and that one might eventually get me a sell.
It's like, and then I realized this is not a great use of my time. This is probably pissing off 99% of the people
that I go to. Yes. If you throw enough mud at a wall, something will stick eventually, but right. You're leaving a
trail of fire behind you and you're probably losing a bunch of connections. You're annoying. A bunch of people.
Yes. You might get a lead eventually. Um, is it going to be worth your time investment? Probably not. Yes, you can
now get automated bots to do that for you, but you're still going to annoy a bunch of people, um, in the, in the,
in the way. And there's a lot better ways on LinkedIn, on other marketing channels to get inbound opportunities.
For sure. So what will you say, well, give, give us one or two ways that you would, that you'd recommend besides
that on LinkedIn specifically. Yeah. LinkedIn to civically. Yeah. I think most of my lifts listeners come from
LinkedIn. Sure. So, yeah, I think one of the most important things is to create content. But, um, not just to
create anything, but to create pieces of content, that's going to be that your ideal, customer's going to find
useful, informative, or helpful, um, or entertaining. So, um, yeah, useful, entertaining or helpful as is my usual
three, three tips. So how do you do that? Well, there's, there's a bunch of ways that I use, or like a framework
that I used to actually create the content. So I think some of the best ways, because sometimes I'll wake up in
the morning and I haven't got ideas. It's post. Um, as I'm sure you've talked about on the, on the show before
Island posting, consistently posting, not just anything but something that's going to be relevant and helpful to
your ideal customers is, is important to get those leads and build that trust over time. Um, so a few quick ideas
on how you can actually do that is you can use questions that your customers have asked you in the past. You can
make a list of all these common questions that you get from your customers, whether that's on sales calls, whether
that's by email, by social. So Sam how'd, you do XYZ. Sam, what's the best way to do website Sam? How should I
design a homepage? How do I get SEO quick wins. So all these common questions that you get, um, common problems,
um, quick tips. So quick tips to achieve X, Y, Z, um, comical things. We've actually used quite some of my best
posts, where sales conversations that I've had over the phone. And I've just quoted those out. So quick example, I
had the chap a while back and he basically said he wanted a website. Cybersecurity business. And, um, what did he
say? He said, so I, I, I asked him, I said, look, tell me more about your business, what you do, how you operate.
So you said, okay. I go into companies like small banks, uh, financial institutions. They pay me a couple of grand
a day and we'll do a full cyber security audit and then construct a plan to help them become, um, cybersecurity
proof. And we'll put all this authority in place and these regulations in place, I said, great. Um, so why do you
need a website? We said I'm not getting inquiries from my contracting. Recruitment company. So when he's getting
more inbound opportunities directly to me, I said, great, okay, let's give me a good idea. So we can do this
website that showcases exactly what you do. Builds trust, showcases your services. And if we Mark it right, it can
hook inbound leads. So you don't have to pay recruitment fees and you can get inbound opportunities straight into
your inbox. It's a great, he said, how much is that going to cost? I said probably about five, six grand. He said,
Sam, it's really expensive. I said, hold on a second. You told me you're charging people two grand a day. How was
the expense? And he laughed at. You said some, that's a great point. Let's discuss it further. Um, so just, I just
put conversations like that, that actually happened to me. And some of those real life conversations get the best
engagement. Um, but there's so many things about that. Things that clients asked you that you'll speak to people
about that you can rework into content, just make a list of it on your phone, on your notes app. That's why I tend
to do. And, uh, that's the relatable posts as some of the best hitters that sounded the best setups. You just
reminded me that I'll give a quick sales tip off of this stuff. Or you just told because the human brain
psychology psychologically works, where you see, you hear a price and you, you have a knee jerk reaction to it.
And, and your brain doesn't think logically with pricing. So as you said, he's charging two grand a day. You're
going to be five grand for the website. It's a, it's literally a no brainer, but they don't. They look at the five
grand. You have to bring people back to the logical point of it, like, okay, if your average sale is 10,000 and
your, and your investment with me is 5,000, you basically need. Half a sale, but to pay for, to pay for me. So
when you frame it that way, it's like, Oh yeah, you're right. This is kind of a no-brainer. So I'm thinking about
it that way. Bring people back to what their average sale is to justify spending the money with you. Exactly.
Yeah. And it comes back to asking good questions and taking the time to understand what your customers are doing
now, why it's important, what their issues are and where they want to get to that helps you later on in the
conversation as well. Sometime, sometimes lead for leads for a funny LinkedIn post.
20:32
So Sam, how did you get to where you are? Like, tell us how you got to your owning your company and what your
background is and how you became this super expert web guy, social guy, SEO guy. Yeah, I'm done about the expert
part, but in terms of my stories, I'll give you the, the short version, um, how I got into sales because I've sold
a bit of everything over the years. Um, so I did first work in a camera shop, so. For anyone from tuning in, from
the UK, then a shop called Jessops, which sells basically camera equipment. So like DSLRs district cameras, memory
cards, all that good stuff. So I did that, and that was one of my first jobs did that for about a year or so. Um,
just realized that I really hated working with the general public. Um, and essentially I I've got to everyone
looking at the glass counter, looking at digital camera and say, hello, cell or hello. Ma'am how can I help you
today? And they'd basically turned around and usually tell him he's pissed off or I'm absolutely. I know, turn
away or say, I'm just looking, just browsing, you know, that the usual response and after, but after that way
weighed me down for about a year and there was no bonus structure I should add that probably didn't help. So
basically our managers was pushing us to sell as many cameras. Ad-ons memory cards and insurance plans as we
could, but there's no benefit. So it's like, what am I trying to work my ass off for nothing? Um, on top of this
manager, that's like breathing down my neck. I probably should add. But 18 at the time. So it was drinking quite a
lot on the weekends and then turning up late, which probably didn't help.
22:06
So they probably were very right to be angry at me. Um, anyway had enough of that. And my, my cousin who's one of
the co-owners at Webb Jewish now, um, mentioned there was a job coming up for a web company. I said, sounds
interesting. He said, can you come in for interview tomorrow? Said sure. Did the interview, got the job, um, left
the camera's store the next day? And yeah, I, um, quick stuff. One of the first websites I ever saw ever sort of
told us on a couple of podcasts, but essentially a lead came in and they asked me to take it. I said, well, I've
never talked to someone on the phone or sold anything on the phone. How do I do it? Um, they just said, look, just
find out what he needs. And then we can give him a quick. And he said, the chap on the phone said he needed a
website, like LinkedIn was that right? Okay. I don't think I'd even heard of LinkedIn at this stage. It was on the
computer typing in what LinkedIn was. And then he said, went through his requirements and I was just saying yes to
everything. Sam. Yes. Can you do this? Yes. Um, I've got 500 pounds to build LinkedIn. Yep. That's fine. Sold a
website on my first ever cool. Probably undersold it by about a million dollars. And um,
23:13
so this massive site for the smallest budget ever, but luckily we did get away with it because he wanted a couple
other smaller sites. We managed to kind of sweeten them up with this deal. Um, but yeah, it did that, but I have
had other jobs in between. So have, um, back then, I was just a junior project manager at web choice and just do
it. A bit of sales, I've worked in a call center in between. Um, but then it came back to web choice about three
years ago and just work my way up from sales manager to now one of the three owners and I head up the sales
department now, but yeah, just, just found my passion for helping businesses grow with SEO, with websites that
convert leads and just really enjoy digital marketing. So that's, that's a quick snapshot of my year so far. So
the moral of the story is you actually started LinkedIn, right? Yeah. I don't like to brag, but 500 pounds has
come really far.
24:00
That's quite an, quite a great investment for that gentleman, but that's for sure.
24:05
Yeah. All right. Let's get to the Ascot. This has been great, Sam. Thanks for joining me again. And we've got a
good one for you. You've talked about a lot so far, but this is the question we got. This is from Joseph in
Austin, Texas United States. Obviously Joseph writes in, uh, would love to hear a website expert on your show
coming up. So obviously Joseph, we, we, we got your wish today. If so. I'll ask them what would be the top three
things I can do to drive more traffic to my website. Thank you very much. Well, thanks for the question, Joe, how
would you answer that Mr. Dunn? Well, Joseph, first of all, if you're driving all this traffic, I hope you've got
a website that does everything we've covered so far. So I hope it clearly defines your message, the problem you
solve, how you can help people. It makes it nice and easy for people to get in touch with you or make that
purchase. And I hope it loads lightning quick as well. So just a few pointers before we get to the traffic. Um, so
traffic wise, well, I'd say. You need to, we need to, again, need to think about where your customers actually
are. Do we, do we know what his business is or is it, it doesn't say, unfortunately I need to have people be more
specific where it doesn't say so. I mean, Google's a good bet because nearly everyone's Googling everything. Um,
so SEO is, is going to be worthwhile to drive traffic. Um, so actually getting your website positioned organically
in the Google search results. So a few quick, a few quick ideas on how you can do that. Content is King when it
comes to SEO. So. So making sure that you're regularly putting out, uh, blocks articles, that kind of stuff you
can, you can do them both on your website and you can do them on other sites. Um, making sure that the information
pages on your website answer what people are searching for. So linking back to, I dunno why I keep banging on CRM,
but I do, for some reason when I go and podcasts, just the only thing that can come up in my, um, so, so let's,
let's say you were CEO and provider. You probably, people are probably going to search on Google best. CRM
provider. Um, so you probably want an information page with the heading tag best CRM provider. And you'd probably
want a page that tells them what to look for to find the best CRM provider, maybe a video tutorial, maybe an
infographic, Google loves content that answers people's questions. So to people, if I'm searching for something
and like, if I search in Google Bessie I'm provider and there's a page and I click on it and it doesn't give me
the answer I was looking for, I'm going to go away to a competitor. So make sure your website informs people fully
and to how you can help them. And make sure your content is crafted around the search terms. You actually want
people to find you for and then gives them all the answers to their questions. Um, really important. You can do
that in a multitude of ways through video content, actually texts, content images. So, yeah, making sure that
that's there is key. So yeah, SEO is really good. Long-term there's many more tips and tricks. There's there's
tons of my LinkedIn. So just check out my LinkedIn for daily tips on that front. Um, paid ads is a good way to get
fast. Traffics SEO is more longer term paid. Yeah. So whether that's Google ads, whether that's Facebook or
Instagram ads, if your audience hangs out on social LinkedIn ads, which are a bit more pricey, more B to B, um,
tend to be for more enterprise level, not always. Um, so that's going to be a good way to get fast traffic, fast
people to website and get some leads and selves. Um, and then if you're a bit strapped for cash after spending all
this money on paid ads and SEO, maybe you start a podcast, like know, uh, no I've done.
27:28
And what is it? The best ways is just, yeah. Get going, building a podcast, plenty of guides out there. Do it. Um,
and starting to your ideal customers, or if you can't be asked to do a podcast, just do a short video interview
series, um, even on zoom tools like we're using now, post them on social posts on LinkedIn. Start to make a list
of your ideal clients. You want to do business with pitch them to come in your podcast from experience. I've seen
that 99% of people you ask, as long as you do a sense, be crafted email, um, or LinkedIn that shows that you've
researched. You've watched the show. You say what you've enjoyed, people like to promote themselves. So if you
invite them onto your show, the chances are, they're going to say yes, I know because I've done it to over 120
people. And then you building a relationship with people that you want to be starting conversations too. Um,
that's my three top tips for now. There's plenty more that, that is that last one. That advice is so spot on
because
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the amount of people that will say yes to you going on a pod. Cast compared to the amount of people that will say
yes to you to have a conversation is about triple. It really is. It's like if you're calling Paula, yeah. It's a
hundred percent to probably 30%. So yeah, 20%. Um, and here's a funny story. I'm going to tell a quick, quick,
because you mentioned it and it popped in my head. So I've had of all the people I've asked on my podcasts, uh,
your you're number 51, I've only had one person tell me no, I've had a couple of people say, you know, I'm too
busy right now, but I'll do it in the spring kind of thing. Yep. I saw this, uh, very young lady. She was 20, 20.
I think she was. And I saw that she had, I was on Tik TOK one day and she has over 2 million followers and she
does glassblowing. I'm not going to say her name. Uh, so I look her up and she does have a LinkedIn account and,
and I hadn't done anything on Tik TOK prior. So I'm like, well, maybe I'll have her on so she can give us some
tick tock, tick tock tips. Yeah. So I reached out to her and her response. So I just said, can you be, you know,
love to have you on you have 2 million followers, blah, blah, blah, her response. Wasn't like, thank you for
reaching out. All it said was I only do podcasts that have 10,000 downloads or more. That was, that was her
response. And I was like, Whoa, I'm sorry, miss 20 year old social media queen. So yeah, that's the only one that
ever told me. No, because she was so pretty much full of herself that she's like, I'm only going to do podcasts
that have this amount. So yeah, if you get approached for a podcast, say yes, go on. Exactly exactly. I mean,
it's, it's good exposure and it gives you content and it's, there's, there's really only positives to it. And like
you say, I've, I think we've done 150, 116 episodes and maybe had one or two that just didn't reply or said no,
but like you said, people love to talk them about themselves just as I've done for the last half hour. And it's
great promotion for both you and the guest. Plus you can, you can get your ideal clients on it. It's a bit of fun.
Um, so it's so much positive. It's really, it really is. All right, Sam. Well, this has been awesome. I want to
thank you for joining me from way over, uh, across the pond. I know we didn't have cocktails because it's morning
for me. And, um, I didn't even ask you if you had a cocktail, but I have, I have ice coffee, so, but I want to
thank you for joining us. And I want to thank everyone out there for joining me for episode number 50, one of
marketing and sales over cocktails, Sam, before we go, how can people find you and, uh, you know, tell people how
they get in touch with you, if they want to any website questions or even help with their website directly. Yeah.
Appreciate it, Alan. Thanks. So please do connect with me on LinkedIn. Tell me sure. So me on Allen's show it's
Sam Dunning. So my son name is DUW and ING. Um, love to connect with you there. Um, otherwise if you run a
business and you're frustrated that your website is not converting a regular flow of inbound customers, or perhaps
you're spending money on marketing and people are failing to find you on Google, and you're just tired of the
competition, enjoying all your leads and revenue from Google or from other sites, then do give us a shout. The
website is web choice. Yeah. K.com. That's web Jewish, U k.com. And finally, I run a podcast just like Alan here,
where we interview business leaders to provide actual marketing tips twice a week. That's business growth show
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twice. So we were talking about this pre pre prerecording and he does this twice a week. I think he's nuts, but I
can only handle once a week, but congratulations on your success, Sam and, and your podcast was awesome when I was
on it. So I want to thank you for having me on there as well. And again, so thanks for joining me today. And
again, everyone. Thank you out there for joining me on. Episode 51. Remember the website is marketing and sales
podcast.com. Go to the ask. Alan segment, send me a question. And just like Joe from Austin, Texas, you will get a
free signed copy of my book. That's it for today, everyone. Thank you for joining marketing and sales over pod
over podcast over cocktails. We'll see you again. Next time.